Curse

spirit of defeat · Mar 18, 2008, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Rit's The following skills can act as protection.
[skill]Weapon of Warding[/skill] 50% block
[skill]Weapon of Remedy[/skill] stealing
[skill]Vengeful Weapon[/skill] stealing
[skill]Weapon of Shadow[/skill] blind
These skill fit quite well in one build.
And then we don't even look at the Protection spirits.
Rit's rock at healing.

Antithesis · Mar 18, 2008, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

That may be true but most people prefer the traditional ways, with 2 monks.
resulting a discrimination of Rit's. But a Rit and a (prot) monk can heal a party just fine.

Having two slots in an 8-man team doing nothing but pushing red bars is not optimal for PvE, particularly HM. Yes 2 Monks works, but i want my team to actively contribute as much of the time as possible. Half the time a Monk is just standing there scratching its arse while the N/Rt and P are banging out DPS in addition to prot and heals.

The point of the Para + N/Rt is to contribute strongly to both offense and defense, something a Monk outside a couple of dungeons simply can not do. A Monk should be present, but only as the last line of defense.

Therefore, in my view, the Rit makes the better healer because defense is not all it can do.

Stormlord Alex · Mar 18, 2008, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

Rit's The following skills can act as protection.
[skill]Weapon of Warding[/skill] 50% block
[skill]Weapon of Remedy[/skill] stealing
[skill]Vengeful Weapon[/skill] stealing
[skill]Weapon of Shadow[/skill] blind
These skill fit quite well in one build.
And then we don't even look at the Protection spirits.
Rit's rock at healing.

In truth, only WoW and Shadow can really prot - Vengeful and Remedy are nowhere near strong enough to be prot skills (they're slightly different, imo - in terms of actual prot effectiveness, a *4* spec RoF is stronger than a *15* spec Vengeful.)

And the protection spirits are horrible. Really.

Antithesis · Mar 18, 2008, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

More damage reduction means less healing is needed.

A Paragon offers huge party-wide prots in 2 skill slots. Toss in party-wide condition removal (Song of Purification), caster Hex removal (Hexbreaker Aria), an IAS, 2 strong attack skills and a battle rez and the Monk is looking pretty sickly in comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

More healing means less damage reduction is needed.

At most 3 skill slots should be dedicated to healing on a Monk, take another 2 for spot condition / hex removal, 1 anti-spike prot, 1 team-wide prot and a hard rez and you've got a bar full of situational and inactive skills unless the team is under heavy pressure.

A N/Rt can have two 2 strong direct heals, 2 party heals, 1 unconditional damage buff, 1 direct attack, an AoE damage elite and the game's best battle rez all on the one bar. All skills are being used as often as possible, making better use of those 64 skill slots.

A Monk makes red bars go up and provide spot heals, hex / condition removal and anti-spike, but i reckon these skills are better focused on mopping up the damage that slipped through the P + N/Rt net so the Monk doesn't tank its energy.

There's always room for one Monk on my team, but i can never justify taking two when the alternatives are so much better these days.

Morgoth the dark · Mar 18, 2008, 09:44 AM // 09:44

LoL, spirit way / henchway

rt's are better for secondary healing (like n/rt ), monks will be faaar ahead of them becuase divine favor and/or protection prayers. But as i said, rt's are better for secondary proffesion healers. More sinergy and so

Tyla · Mar 18, 2008, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgruber

Calling a N/RT healer a sabway isn't really fair since it was in use in HA/GVG for a looong time before. In fact I would wager that's where it originated...

Anyway close to infinite energy and high rit heals is pretty win.

Sab already said that it came from Spiritway / Heroway.

Fishmonger · Mar 19, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Personally I don't care for N/Rt's because taking all rit skills and playing a different class just because of the primary seems wrong imho (let the flames commence). Paras are awesome, but like rits, few people understand synergy of skills in a build is the best way to keep people alive. Honestly, Resto>Healing Prayers, but Prot can't go into this considering that basically reduces this discussion into "are rits better than monks"

MasterSasori · Mar 19, 2008, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishmonger

Honestly, Resto>Healing Prayers, but Prot can't go into this considering that basically reduces this discussion into "are rits better than monks"

Restoration v. Healing Prayers ALONE = maybe
Restoration v. Heal + Prot + Divine = no

I think the OP was aiming for a rit v. monk thread despite him only mentioning heal.

Dodo The Extinct · Mar 19, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Monks are better.

Tyla · Mar 19, 2008, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishmonger

Personally I don't care for N/Rt's because taking all rit skills and playing a different class just because of the primary seems wrong imho (let the flames commence)

Trust me Fishmonger -- exploiting Soul Reaping in PvE is /win.

mrmango · Mar 19, 2008, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Restoration v. Healing Prayers ALONE = maybe
Restoration v. Heal + Prot + Divine = no

I think the OP was aiming for a rit v. monk thread despite him only mentioning heal.

QFT. I get the feeling the OP was thinking in terms of pure healing, as that's what healing is.

The better defense character? Obviously monks, because of prot.

spirit of defeat · Mar 20, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

MM love Rit's, bring in Life And Recuperation.

isamu kurosawa · Mar 21, 2008, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Restoration v. Healing Prayers ALONE = maybe
Restoration v. Heal + Prot + Divine = no

I think the OP was aiming for a rit v. monk thread despite him only mentioning heal.

well of course almost a whole profession is better than one attribute.

flettir · Mar 27, 2008, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Depends more on the person than on the class.
I would rather have an amazing rit healer than a decent monk healer. Some people are just plain better than others.
I personally find monks to be better for healing because of versatility in that aspect (protection). I always carry Prot Spirit on my monk, even as a healer. Plus, many rit skills rely on the presence of spirits to be at maximum efficiency, and that means wasted time to lay them down. Plus, like people said, they can be killed.
Don't yell at me about the versatility thing...I know rits are versatile too, but in a different way, more of the offense/defense versatility.

Seems to me though, that in general, it's easier to be a good monk healer. Easier to learn, just as hard to master. So if I'm confronted by two people I know nothing about, one a monk and one a rit, and I need one of them as a healer, I'd be inclined to take the monk just because there's more chance that he knows what he's doing.

blue.rellik · Mar 27, 2008, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

MM love Rit's, bring in Life And Recuperation.

That is very very true. Life is so awesome in PvE because it basically heals anything that isn't a enemy, it made missions with NPCs that must be protected much much easier (like Eternal Grove). The huge range of the life gain when the spirit dies is also a boon

Antithesis · Mar 27, 2008, 09:17 AM // 09:17

I finally started playing my Rit rather than testing out Hero builds. Gotta say, a Channel / Resto hybrid is great fun to play in PvE. A Heal / Prot Monk is boring as batsh*t in comparison.

Ancient Menace · Mar 28, 2008, 03:04 AM // 03:04

The whole prot vs. heal argument is completely moot. The only thing that we have to compare these two classes on are their healing abilities. To do otherwise would be like comparing healing prayers to fire magic; of course they're different, because they're completely different classes trying to accomplish two very different things.

In the same sense, the only things that are analogous between monks and rits are the resto/healing lines and the smiting/channeling lines. Both of these serve the primary purpose of giving health and causing damage, respectively.

Comparing these two categories, ritualists definitely show a strong advantage in pure healing, which has been agreed on by most people in this thread. Also, it would be pretty much impossible for channeling to NOT beat smiting, as nerfed all to hell as it is.

The one supreme advantage that monks have over ritualists is the ability to remove hexes. Rits have exactly zero hex removal skills. The bright side?

Attuned was Songkai works on monk skills too. Well, hello there, 3 energy remove hex!

The other great thing about rits is the ability to dual spec without any problems. A healing monk without points in divine favor suffers a great disadvantage, and likewise for a prot monk. A rit could easily dual spec 9 prot and 12 resto and use it more effectively with any of the energy management skills, even with relatively little investment into spawning.

something final for everyone to think about. A rit with 14 in spawning and 12 in healing, using Attuned was and heal party puts out almost twice as much heal as a Light of Deliverance monk with heal at 14 and divine at 12.

Tyla · Mar 28, 2008, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ancient Menace

something final for everyone to think about. A rit with 14 in spawning and 12 in healing, using Attuned was and heal party puts out almost twice as much heal as a Light of Deliverance monk with heal at 14 and divine at 12.

Who uses LoD now?
It's Heal Party / Healers' Boon, now.

HB outclasses Rit a bit aswell, in my opinion.

jimmyboveto · Mar 28, 2008, 03:11 AM // 03:11

I would say rits make a better healer. For hex removal you can always go secondary monk. However, I would say monks are more versatile in the ways they keep their teams alive. They have more options with the prot line and are able to run hybrid builds to boot. Rits, however, are also great at running hybrid builds, but in a different way.

MasterSasori · Mar 28, 2008, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

MM love Rit's, bring in Life And Recuperation.

But it also renders Shelter and Preservation near useless.